Wednesday, 18 June 2008

A Conversation with Greg Bishop

A series of extracts from the latest edition of Alien Worlds magazine issue 3

2. A Conversation with Greg Bishop speaking here on American UFOlogy, Project SERPO and cattle mutilations:

AW: You don’t get the same level of theatre in other countries. The current reasoning we are told now for the likes of stories like SERPO is the control and manipulation of belief systems - how easy is it to convince a large number of people via the Internet that such and such a story is true, and so on.

GB: I think there are probably some deep psychological reasons as to why the Americans do this. There’s a culture of secrecy in every country but there’s been one here for a long time. They took their cues from Russian and South African intelligence and a bunch of different people who were really good at it. Britain was involved with it as well in World War 2 and the Germans also because a lot of those people came here after the war. There’s a long culture and heritage of how to mess with people’s minds and on how to keep a secret.

But there are things that developed here that weren’t developed anywhere else at the time as regards weaponry and air craft. I think that the CIA and the NSA, Air force and Naval intelligence, anybody that could, saw an opportunity and seized upon the UFO subject as something to be used to confuse and bamboozle other agents from other countries and to some extent, people here as well because agents from other countries and news people can talk to people that live here. If I’m working for the government and looking for ways to cover things up, I’m going to use anything possible. Let people believe anything as long as they don’t find out what we don’t want them to find out.

As far as SERPO is concerned, I don’t think it was covering up any project. There was no project for it to cover up because nobody was looking anywhere for it. While the whole story was happening, I was talking to Bill Moore and he was giving me his thoughts about what was really happening. And since he knew all the old players, I listened. I asked him what he thought it was. And what I think they were doing was simply passing messages. Victor Martinez, the guy that was first writing about it, he was the point man who this person “Anonymous” - how original - was sending messages to by email, and who was asked to put the things up on his List. I wondered why he just didn’t put the damn things out himself.

If you know about codes and ciphers and things like that, things can be written in a certain way to say a certain thing that has nothing to do with what the text says. I got a hint of this when Martinez got in trouble with Anonymous because he was editing the messages. He was editing them to read properly so they flowed logically and so on. I mean, the guy’s a teacher and an editor and he knew what he was doing. Anonymous said “I’m not going to let you do this anymore. I’m not going to give you the information unless you put it out exactly as I’ve written it. Spelling errors, grammatical errors and all other improper use of the English language to be left intact”.

And to me that means that there’s something written in there that gets screwed up when you change the message. So what I think was happening was that somebody was passing messages back and forth that were meant for only a certain number of people and also a number of people who would try and crack the code and act upon it. For example, you conceal in a SERPO email a message that X is bringing this to Y and it’s going to be delivered here, and then you watch and see who shows up. That would mean that if someone turned up who shouldn’t have been there, then they had figured out your code. It was a way to flush people out.

That is speculation. If I keep going down that road then I don’t know where it ends but I do think that at the core base of it, it had to do with passing messages back and forth about some project or other, or people. I could be totally wrong but it has the hallmarks of that to me. And all the other stuff was hung on top of it I guess as a show, to get people interested. I think it’s a case of hiding in plain sight. Make a big noise about something so that nobody in the mainstream culture or media wants to pay any attention to it and make it as ridiculous as possible.

Also, I think I irritated Doty when I went on Art Bell with him. I didn’t know he was going to come on but two days before the show the producer called me and I mentioned that I had an idea to bring Richard Doty or Bill Moore on as well and the only person who said yes was Doty. I called him the day of the show to check on him, and he was apparently out at Kirtland Air Force Base. Well he supposedly had been retired for about ten or fifteen years. What was he doing over at Kirtland right before going on national radio? He was probably being told what he could and couldn’t say. All these years later……….. That was interesting to me when I found this out.

I wrote about it in that SERPO piece on my blog. And also because he got more and more involved in the UFO subject and in the public eye a little bit, I think he was sort of getting back into the business of counter intelligence at somebody’s behest because they thought he was good at it. I don’t know if SERPO worked or not, it kind of came and went, and now the only person left talking about it is Bill Ryan. I talked to Bill Moore about Ryan and he said, “You know what? I think I’ve seen him before but I can’t tell when, and it was a long time ago.” He’s apparently, possibly, not just somebody that came out of the woodwork.

AW: In the last few years, since I last spoke to you, have your views or opinions on what cattle mutilations are all about changed? Where we last left it, you thought it was almost certainly some sort of government programme designed to check on the food chain either to protect against bio warfare attack or because something nasty escaped from a laboratory a long while back and the Feds are checking to see whether it got into the cattle stock.

GB: I’m sorry, no new news, and no, it hasn’t changed! It’s only been strengthened actually. I had gotten to the point where I had wanted to write a book about it but nobody wanted it, which mystifies me. I think publishers want books where UFOs and aliens are abducting people and mutilating cattle. And because I don’t think that’s what’s happening, therefore it doesn’t fly with them.

Think how many people would buy a book that said, “You may be ingesting some horrible thing and somebody is very worried about it and has been since the late 1960s.” The subject directly affects everybody that eats beef, which is a pretty big segment of the population! I’m part of that! Even knowing this I still eat meat.

My opinion hasn’t changed and as time passes, it makes more sense. I’m not saying it explains all things that have been observed with regards to cattle mutilations. There have been some weird lights that have been doing things that aircraft that we know about don’t do, and there are mysterious aspects to it. But to me, 90% of what’s been going on can be explained by that theory.

Something horrible happened somewhere and somebody or some company or entity have been trying to keep it from the population because it would cause a huge panic and ruin the beef industry. That’s a pretty strong motivation to be quiet about what you’re doing. Then people say, “Well why don’t they just keep their own stock of cattle and test them? But you can’t do that because if it has spread everywhere you have to go and check it out.

The full interview is carried in issue 3 of Alien Worlds. Please see

and the following link for purchasing a copy or a subscription

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